Thriving The Future Ep. 45 – How to Make Money on Your Own Terms

Intro:

Welcome back to Thriving the Future. In this episode, I talk with Jules Smith, the editor of The Homestead Journal on how to make money on your own terms.

What if you could work less than 40 hours a week?

What if you could charge double what everyone else is charging work less and still thrive? Let's find out

(Episode transcript - Excerpt)
Scott:

So in your article, you were talking about all the side hustles and, and jobs you do. So you do some online teaching and then you do the handyman stuff, right?

Jules:

Yes. So online teaching is not a side hustle actually. That is like a, you know, real job, so to speak. But yeah, in the article I was discussing kind of my like general financial strategy, which included a real job. And then also side hustles. And I guess the handyman thing could be considered a side hustle. Even though it's kind of more like serious than that, I guess.

I guess it's the same kind of idea, but then the other main side hustle that I really enjoy doing is crafting things for people, you know, custom orders, including blacksmithing or wood working furniture, stuff like that. And then another thing probably followed by that would be music, either composing music or scoring things performing.

Scott:

And one of the things that stood out to me in that, in the article was when you said do things to fulfill you without financial compensation, but then things that you may hate you may have to do to reliably pay the bills, right?

Keeping from getting burned out as a creator:

Jules:

Yes. So this was huge. And this was one of my friends who is an artist told me this. And so I'm a musician, he's an artist we were talking about, you know, the kind of like artsy personality type and how we deal with the world and all that stuff. And he mentioned one of the things that he's working on is, although he's like a visual artist, he is working on doing CAD designs for these people who are doing 3d carvings of things. And you can obviously see like the overlap between being an artist and doing that. But it's not necessarily like the first thing that comes to mind when you think of doing art, it's definitely heavily drawing on artistic skillset. And I was like, oh man, I don't know. I just couldn't do it. Just sitting on a computer all day and clicking and just super tedious, like modeling.

And, you know, he said to me, yeah, it is super tedious, but I don't kid myself on whether it's fulfilling or not. Like it's not. And what he said to me is he's like one of the rules that I live by is to do things that well, actually first he explained it as the kind of counter example where most people who are creative types will try to figure out some way to make a living off their creativity. And this could be true right. Of not just traditionally like artistic things, but there's a lot of really creative, I guess, nowadays they would be called content creators.

Where the definition of being creative is like way broader than, you know, what you think of when you, someone says the word artist is all I'm trying to say. So he was saying that most people will try to find some way of making a living, utilizing their passion. And he said that that's totally the wrong way to do it. That there should be two extremes where you do things that fulfill you and you don't get paid for. So you do your art on the weekends, on the side for fun. You know, you put them in an art studio, maybe every once in a while, someone buys one, you know, for $500, you've seen those art studios downtown or whatever. And you're like, man, who buys these? Right. But you know, someone buys them, I guess, every once in a while. And so, you do that, it's fun and it doesn't suck the joy out of it for you.

And this was one thing that resonated with me because as a musician, I was a professional musician for a little while. And I quickly after only a year was like, Nope, I'm not doing this. This is sucking all of the joy out of it. For me, it's turning what I used to love into a chore where I have to like sit down and just, you know, like practice these charts because the gig is coming. And if I don't, I'm not going to get my measly, you know, hundred bucks for the night or whatever, and then play five hours for 50 bucks. And then, you know, go back to my studio apartment and do it all over again. So I was like, you know what, I'm going to be totally happy. I'm making the decision to be happy with music, just being a hobby for me, you know, like I don't need the like status of being a professional musician or that lifestyle or anything.

I love music for what it is. I'll do it in whatever capacity I can to fit it in with the rest of my life. And that will be that. So I was coming from this background when he told me that. And, but even still, I was in the back of my mind trying to think of ways that maybe I could make it work, like being a music therapist perhaps, or, you know, peripheral things. But you know, at the end of the day he was like, look, I do the computer CAD modeling stuff, and it's super boring. It's super tedious, but I make way more money than I would by painting. You know, I'd have to sell a lot of paintings to make as much money as I do on the computer. And I'm like, okay, that makes a lot of sense. And I started developing this.

I guess just this idea of how could you take that idea to its maximum extent? And that would involve doing things that just make you a ton of money in the shortest amount of time possible to leave you more time to do other things. And I never read the book. I think. So one of the biggest podcasts out there, Tim Ferris. He has that book the four-hour work week.

Scott:

Yeah. I like your approach better. I think a lot of Tim Ferris's things in that book were more focused on outsourcing your crap to someone else, you know, sort of like getting on Fiver and then getting one of these virtual assistants, like a lot of the podcasters do, a lot of the “content creators”. A lot of them do that. And then they have somebody else edit their podcast. They have somebody else do all their crappy work and stuff like that. That was the main focus that I got out of that book. That was what stood out in your article was the fact that you get away from the idea that sure. I'm making a lot of money, but I'm still going to have this mindset, like I'm working 40 hours a week. Right. And you were different than that in saying, what do I need to fulfill this goal? So I'm going to work one hour at a hundred dollars an hour. And one thing that stood out was charge more than what you would pay for it or charge a lot. And you'll do half the work. You may lose some clients, but you'll do half the work and then you'll have time for those other things. Those enriching activities like music.

Charge double

Jules:

Yeah. So that's one thing that this dentist friend of mine influenced that belief where I had one of my teeth chipped and I needed to get it fixed. So one of my buddies is a dentist and I went to him and it was not a big chip. It was just like the corner of my teeth. One of my teeth has like a sharp point on it. And from constantly biting down on the other tooth, it eventually just kind of like created a crack and broke the very edge of the tooth out. Like it wasn't a big deal. And I was almost considering not fixing it, but it was pretty sharp on my tongue. So I basically just wanted him to like grind it down, not a big deal.

And it was 700 bucks to do this. So I gave him the money and I was just like, brother, what is the deal with that? Like, I'm happy to pay it or whatever, but come on. He's like, oh yeah, no, I totally get it. I'm actually surprised that you came to me, like none of my friends or anything come to me cause most people know that I'm just way too expensive. I'm the most expensive dentist in town by far. And it got me thinking for the same thing, you know, the same work, the same treatment, the same, whatever this guy got away with charging just way more than the next guy.

And it's like, how did he get away with that? Some people for whatever reason are willing to pay it. You just have to accept that fact, no matter how little it makes sense to me or you or anyone else. So I was thinking, I'm just going to start raising my prices until people stop hiring me. And every week I would raise my prices by like another $10 an hour.

And that's awesome. People just like kept hiring me. They didn't care. With the handyman thing I never did any advertising. In my area, there's a lot of people moving in; a lot of rich Californian type people who are moving into a historically not super economically prosperous area. So there's not like a lot of really nice houses except on the waterfront. And then beyond that there's not a whole lot going on. You know, a lot of the houses around here are just a little beat down or whatever. The houses in the area just aren't very nice. So there there's a huge demand for them to be fixed up. And the second that one person realized that I do this. Then they started telling people and it was all word of mouth. People would call and say “Are you Jules? You fix houses?”

I'd be like, “Yep. You know, it's 65 bucks an hour. Like just tell me when you need me and if you have any idea on it.” And then, you know, the next week I'd be: “it's 70 bucks” and I just kept working it up and up and up and it never stopped. And then eventually people did start to drop off after a certain point at $75 an hour. That's when people asked. “When did you raise your prices?” You know, like repeat customers who I'd had when I started at $35 an hour, way back when. And they said, “Man, that's ridiculous now. I'm not paying that.” And I'm like, okay, well other people are, so see ya. Sure. I go to barter circles a lot with my blacksmithing stuff and I go on the (barter) blanket and say “here is what I’ve got. But if you want something in specific, here's my number, call me up and we'll work something out.”

For the barter blanket I bring really small items that are light because a lot of the time you're hiking to these things, at the rainbow gatherings, or permaculture convergences, or whatever. You've just got whatever is in your backpack. I just bring like a sample of stuff that is small and light to give a representation. And, and sometimes people do want to trade for that stuff, which is great. But really what I'm looking for, the bartering is fun. But every once in a while, you'll come across the person who says “This is the barter thing. We're not allowed to exchange money, but I want this (custom), let's work this out outside of it. And you know, I'll pay you to make me this.”

And those are the people who you like want as a customer because they want something specific. They know what they want and they want you to do it. They sought you out. You're not looking for them. You're just hanging out and they're coming to you and they're probably willing to pay. I had this experience myself. When I went to the farmer's market a couple of weeks ago, there was a potter there and he had some really cool standard stuff, cups, balls, plates. Standard stuff. And I asked - do you have a fermentation crack? I think that'd be super cool to have like a handmade fermentation crack with the like colorful glaze, cause you know how most fermentation cracks are just that beige color. Yeah. And it's just kind of boring. I want a really cool, beautiful one that you could leave on your counter.

And I said, “Hey, I'd be willing to pay you $300 bucks to make me one of these.” That sounds like a ridiculous amount for a fermentation crack. But when you think about it's, it's really not like that bad for a handmade one, how big they are, and just how hard that would be to make. And he said, “it wouldn’t cost that much. It'd probably be more like $150.” I was happy, but in my mind, I thought, dude, you fool, you just turned down $300.

Scott:

And that's the problem. That's the problem is that people get wrapped around the axle on what they would pay or they get wrapped around the axle about, oh, this is too much, this isn't fair. This isn't fair to this person. And then they're cutting themselves short.

Jules:

Yeah. But the thing that they don't realize is that if everyone did it, then it would be okay. People see it as unfair. But I don't know where that sentiment comes from. I've felt that too. And I've wanted to undercharge in the past. But one day I guess I just realized - you know what? I don't even care.

There’s some slope on the line of the proportion of people, of a price of something that like, as the price goes up, the proportion of people who will buy it goes down. Yeah. But it's like a linear line. So you could be anywhere on that line and be making the same amount of money.

Scott:

Yeah. So that's the, that's the demand curve. So many people get stuck on: I'm starting to lose business and then they stop. But if you go for the premium customer, then they're still on that curve somewhere. You're just not intersecting with 90% of the people, but you've whittled it down to 25% of the people who are willing to pay that higher cost.

Multi side hustle, intermittent, high value dollar per hour system

Jules:

Right. What I think I've stumbled upon here is the multi side hustle, intermittent, high value dollar per hour system. Like anything that you can think of that you are capable of doing, you just throw it out there and do it for a lot of money. That's all you have to do. You might do it once a year. And it doesn't matter because you've got a ton of other things that you're doing a couple times a year, on a scale where you've got your reliable, good, old standbys.

For me, handyman would be by far the like most utilized of these. But you've got a bunch of them, so that you've got the blacksmithing thing, you score a couple films a year, you read some music, you perform a couple times a year, you train a couple dogs every year. You make a couple pieces of furniture every year. You hammer out a couple knives for people every year. You know, you make one chandelier a year, and all of these little things. It’s a surefire way to never get burned out. Because for me, I get burned out super easily. I've never had a like job proper, like a real job for more than two years, I've always gotten just too bored and wanted to move on and do something else. So for people who get bored easily, this is a great thing because you're never doing the same thing. One week you're in the shop building furniture, the next week you're over on someone's property erecting a greenhouse for them. It couldn't be more different of skill sets that you're utilizing. But it is just always fresh.

Scott:

Yeah. Good. Yeah. That's excellent. And the avoiding burnout is, is, is huge right there. And then also getting away from that. Okay. So I'm going to work 40 hours a week. So if I charge $35 an hour, then I can keep busy for 40 hours a week. You've taken it to the next step and say, if I charge $75 or an hour, I can work 20 hours a week or half time. And it gets away from: I got to fill up my time with this job-type thing.

Jules:

Yeah. And I mean, you've talked about this before on your podcast. Just how people's jobs in our culture are so much part of their identity. The other thing is about burnout. It feels really good to at the end of the day to walk away and have a thousand bucks in cash in your hand. Just like getting a paycheck direct deposited into your bank account. A couple thousand bucks. That's cool. That's nice. But there's a certain dopamine burst that you get from just having like a fat stack of cash that in your mind you didn't really work that hard for.

The biggest one for me is when I do tractor work. I charge $150 bucks an hour for this and you know, people, mostly neighbors, just hit me up.

And there's this one guy who lives down the street. He’s a very large patron of mine. He wants me to dig an entire pond. That's like almost like a quarter of an acre of a pond on his property. And I said: it's $150 an hour. He knows it's going to be expensive, but he wants me to do it. I met this guy. I saw him working on his house and I stopped by just to say hi. I said, “hey, new neighbor, what's up?” Just introduce myself. And I kind, he was working on his house. So I said I do this for a living. If you ever need any help, just let me know. I'll come over and, you know, help you for free just because you're a neighbor.

And I always give neighbors a free day just to kind of read them out. Right. And see if I want to associate with them because when you work for someone or with someone it's really easy to tell quickly if you want to deal with them anymore. I worked for this guy and he liked me and he just called me the other day. He lives out of town, but he's coming back for a month to work on his place. This guy owns a construction company down in Colorado. He's very wealthy. He has this super crazy vision of this pond with multi-levels and with fish in it and he wants a little rowboat on it. You know, he's got like this very specific vision. That's really quirky. And if you went to your average kind of bulldozer operator with this vision he would be like “what are you talking about, man? I don't have time for that.” He would laugh at you.

You want these Japanese fish that you want to go swimming with? I'll pass on that. I'd rather just drive my bulldozer in a circle, in a field and make, you know, livestock ponds cause that's easy. I don't want to put like islands and leave trees. But for me I think that'd be pretty fun. And at the end of the day, you go dig on his property for 10 hours in a day. And you got $1500 bucks right there.

Friend or Customer?

Scott:

So how do you keep from getting dragged into the well? This is my friend, or I know this guy well enough, or he is my neighbor. And then they start thinking that you should cut him a break or you should do it for free or we're buds or whatever else. How do you keep it from slipping into the gift economy?

Jules:

So I keep it so there are two distinct categories of people in my mind - there's friends and then there's acquaintances and with friends I would never take money or give money to my friends and it's going to be exclusively gift economy.

For the others, if I'm going to charge them, then I think: You might be a great person. We might like really enjoy hanging out whatever. But like I've got enough friends right now. My Dunbar’s number, is filled. I don't necessarily need any more friends. And I usually establish it like super early on in the interaction. So like I mentioned, I'll give people (neighbors and stuff) just a free day. I'll stop by and help them with something.

I won't initiate anything else. The ball is in their court. If they then come to me and ask me to help, then like right then and there, I just say, it’s $75 bucks an hour for this, $150 for tractor work, whatever. Let me know, like if you want to get started. That’s how I do it. Just right up front. I think one thing that a lot of people do is try to be friends with everyone. You don't. Having friends is great, but you don't need to be friends with everyone. Me and this neighbor have a totally positive relationship. I'm really glad to have him as a neighbor. It's great. He likes me. I like him, but we're not friends and that's totally okay. There's nothing wrong with that. If I had to give advice to someone: it is just to be okay with not being friends with everyone and establish it as the very first thing in your interaction with someone asking you to do something, what you charge for it or what the arrangement is going to be.

Outro:

Thank you for listening the, in the future podcast, if you like, what you hear, click that subscribe or follow button on your favorite podcast app. Also check us out at thrive in the future.com and join our conversation on Twitter at thrive in the future or join our telegram channel. Simply go to the thrive in the future website on the right-side bar, there's a link to the telegram channel. This episode was produced by Scott Miller, copyright 2022, ThrivingTheFuture.com.

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